Improving Awareness and Access to Student Support Services in Higher Ed With Dr. Amelia Parnell

According to a U.S. News + Generation Lab report, 70% of college students have struggled with mental health since starting college. Despite expressing a need for care, only 37% of survey respondents searched for mental health resources. These findings align with a recent D2L-sponsored Tyton Partners report, which found that only 50% of students are aware of key on-campus services like academic and career advising, financial aid, and mental health counseling.

It's clear we’re edging closer and closer towards a student mental health crisis in the higher education world. To discuss why this is happening and offer solutions, Dr. Cristi Ford, D2L’s Chief Learning Officer, welcomed Dr. Amelia Parnell, President of Student Affairs Administrators in Higher Education (NASPA). 

In this episode, they discuss:  

• The D2L and Tyton Partners 'Listening to Learners Report', which highlights the impact of student safety on re-enrollment decisions
• Why academic advisors play a pivotal role in creating safe spaces and supporting students beyond academic guidance
• Why so many students are unaware of available mental health resources
• How technology can enhance the delivery and accessibility of support services
• The importance of continuous collaboration between student affairs departments and academic affairs departments to support student success

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Transcript

Dr. Cristi Ford (00:00):

If you're concerned about student mental health and its impact on re-enrollment, you won't want to miss this episode.

(00:06):

Hi, I'm Dr. Cristi Ford, and today I welcome Dr. Amelia Parnell, president of NASPA. We discussed a recent D2L-sponsored report highlighting the link between student safety and their likeliness to re-enroll in their institution. Despite the increasing understanding around the importance of mental health, awareness of student support services on campuses still remains low. So join us for this discussion, where Dr. Parnell and I share ideas about how to change this.

Speaker 2 (00:36):

Welcome to Teach and Learn, a podcast for curious educators, brought to you by D2L.

Dr. Cristi Ford (00:41):

Each week, we'll meet some of the sharpest minds in the K-20 space. Sharpen your pencils, class is about to begin.

(00:49):

Hi, colleagues. Welcome back to Teach and Learn. If you are concerned about student mental health and its impact on re-enrollment, you won't want to miss this episode. I'm Dr. Cristi Ford, and today I'm welcomed by Dr. Amelia Parnell, president of NASPA. I'm so excited to have you joining us today.

Dr. Amelia Parnell (01:06):

Thank you very much for the invitation to come back and talk with you again.

Dr. Cristi Ford (01:10):

Absolutely. I have to remember, you were one of our first guests in season one, and so we got such rave reviews around that podcast episode, and with your recent appointment, we just knew we had to have you come back and join us.

Dr. Amelia Parnell (01:24):

Well, it's my pleasure. I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing, but it seems like we always have something to talk about in higher education, so we can do this many times over and I would enjoy it each time.

Dr. Cristi Ford (01:34):

Absolutely, I really appreciate it. So I want to kick off this episode by referencing a great report by our friends at Tyton Partners called Listening to Learners: How Awareness of Student Services and Safety Relate to Re-enrollment. D2L has had the privilege of sponsoring this research this year, and I've been fascinated about what we're learning from learners that have taken this survey.

(01:55):

So for those of you who are listening and don't have context, this report was a survey of over 1,600 students from more than 850 two-year and four-year institutions of higher ed. And of those students who responded, 26% of those students were first generation students, and almost 20% of the students were also older than 25. And so, as I come to this conversation with you today, Amelia, I want to really lead in and talk about some of the initial findings in terms of safety and well-being of students, whether it be in physical or from an emotional standpoint. And what we found from looking at some of the data was there was a strong influence on students' decisions to stay enrolled at the university and college and their feeling of safety.

(02:47):

And so, some of the nuances that we heard in the report, that we looked at the key statistics, is that students are four times more likely to want to discuss campus safety issues with academic advisors, that for physical safety, students who express the highest level of physical safety on campus are 12 times higher, 12 times more likely to stay enrolled than students who express lower levels of safety. And so, as we talk about the work that you do at your organization, for colleagues who are listening and don't know as much about NASPA, it is the professional home and association for student affairs administrators in higher ed. And so, I'd love to, given that context and [inaudible 00:03:32] really understand, based on your work, what do you think advisors can do to create safe spaces to address some of these issues?

Dr. Amelia Parnell (03:41):

Well, I think we put a lot in the setup there. I want to say, first off, I like any conversation that speculates reasons why students might be doing something, or why professionals might be approaching their work in a certain way if it's informed by data. So as soon as you led with the statistics, you had my attention. I think sometimes, there's always this balance of anecdotes, things that you hear in casual conversation, versus an actual efforts to gather perspectives.

(04:06):

Now, anytime I say this, I always say once you've seen one campus, you've seen one campus. One of my good friends always reminds me that once you've seen one campus budget, you've seen one campus budget. But I think when you start bringing in data, it starts to have a consistent narrative about things. So none of which you've shared actually surprised me, and I do have some thoughts. So I think maybe I'll go macro to micro.

(04:26):

So if you're thinking why would this make a difference now, what is it about it advising, I'm going to go out and say that advisors have one of the most critical roles in all of higher education, because at any given time, someone who's trying to navigate a very complex environment like college, they're going to need advice. And literally, if we take the root purpose of advising, it is to provide advice, to provide counsel, some perspective, to help individuals make their best decisions.

(04:53):

So if I had to think about why it's such a pivotal role in helping students feel a sense of safety, it's because in their middle of their class, we're on a Thursday today, and they're trying to figure out what they want to do with the rest of the day, they have this appointment, then they're going to see Dr. Ford. And they may be coming to see an advisor to ask about some status of a class or taking or some type of progress toward a credential, but while they're in there, they're also talking about other things. And so, I remembered I have to fill out the FAFSA, or I have this job interview coming up, or I have to talk with my roommate about this or that.

(05:21):

And so, advisors are in a role where, at any given time, their purpose for being there is to provide a structured set of principle types of advice, but you never know what might come out of the conversation. And if that conversation that weaves in and out of a bunch of different topics makes the student feel like, I can talk to Dr. Ford about this, she understands me, maybe she didn't answer all my questions, but I feel like I can come to this location, to this person, whether it be virtual or in person, and feel like my questions could get answered.

(05:48):

So I think in general, the hard part about that, if you're on the advisor side, is that there's always something to learn, there's always something more to know, issues and things to be current on. But there's also a highly relational aspect of that that, that when students are saying, "I actually enjoy going to see my advisor because I feel a better sense of comfort and belonging," there's a lot that's wrapped up in that.

(06:09):

To the stat about students who feel more safe staying on campus, I think that's probably consistent with what any of us would experience in everyday life. I don't want to go to a restaurant if I don't feel like it's secure, that someone at any given time could make me feel unsafe. I don't want to spend my time or my money or my talent and contribute to any space that I feel like I'm not safe in. So I didn't realize the stats were as obvious as that, but I think it'd be hard to debate that.

(06:33):

So I would also say trying to maintain all of that, trying to figure out for each individual student what's going to be the right combination of number of sessions with an advisor or a number of factors that make them feel safe, I want to give some space for campus leaders to say, "Amelia, we're working on it." You know what I mean? When you talk to these students, it's hard to find the right prescription for every single student at all times without exception. But I can say, more often than not, that our data are consistent, that the role of advisors is incredibly important, and that the issue of health, safety and wellbeing is at the top.

(07:03):

So a quick sidebar and shameless plug, speaking of data, NASPA did a survey of senior leaders to ask about the top issues in student affairs, and numbers one through five all relate to health, safety and wellbeing.

Dr. Cristi Ford (07:16):

Oh, wow.

Dr. Amelia Parnell (07:16):

So I'll see your Tyton report and raise you some additional NASPA data.

Dr. Cristi Ford (07:21):

Talk about triangulation and it's findings.

Dr. Amelia Parnell (07:23):

Yeah, absolutely.

Dr. Cristi Ford (07:25):

I really appreciate your focus and comments around once you've seen one campus, you've seen one campus. So thinking about institutions of higher ed are not a monolith, that there are lots of complexities in terms of how students come to campuses, what they need. Thinking about this data and thinking about Maslow's hierarchy of needs and understanding the importance of safety, and psychological and physical safety being just one of those pieces that are absolutely critical, but also thinking about the role of the advisor, from connecting with students around upcoming semester, making sure that academically they're moving along and they have the right support, I'm just wondering, in this day and age, if there is this new nuance here around safety and re-enrollment that is emerging at this time. What are you seeing based on what you talked about in terms of the trends that NASPA has done in terms of those five areas?

Dr. Amelia Parnell (08:23):

Yeah. So I don't think it's new, I just think that we're at a place where we can't avoid talking about it. I think in the days of old, we've always known that a campus has to be safe, literally physically safe for individuals, and I'd say from an emotional standpoint, we've had ample research to suggest that students' sense of belonging, comfort, and that their identities would be affirmed, has a really big impact on their decisions to stay.

(08:45):

But sometimes the headlines, they shift every few years, and so if we're looking at reasons why students don't complete college, oftentimes the headline is monetary. So it's not to say that hidden in plain sight and we didn't have these discussions of safety, but oftentimes it takes up a lot of space to be talking about the cost of college, and once you get past that, then it's their academic preparation, and after that, it's their literal capacity to be preparing for a career. And so, somewhere in that gumbo of reasons why students would choose to stay or not, health, safety and wellbeing was always there. But I think at some point, when we started to see different shifts in the industry, shifts in world events, that bumping up to the top happened gradually and it's been there the whole time.

(09:23):

So in terms of what I see in terms of campuses trying to address it, within that top five, it's not like we're saying number one, mental health, number two, mental health, number three, mental health, there's a little bit of nuance. So some campuses wrestle with the strain of keeping capacity of counselors. So knowing that there's a lot more interest in, I'd say, demand for services, some campuses struggle with having enough capacity, literally counselors available to have repetitive or frequent meetings with students if they need to. And it doesn't always mean a student in crisis, like a 24-hour emergency, it literally might be, I'd like to speak to somebody, I'm having a period of stress maybe around a particular event.

(09:59):

There's also the ongoing training needs that those individuals have. Issues continue to emerge, and so you want to be able to actually sustain that type of enterprise. And then, lastly, that training spills beyond just those trained counselors, but others on the campus. So when we talk about advising, we oftentimes talk about the need for it to be holistic. And so, it's not to say that everybody now needs to take on the responsibility of counseling and looking out for health, safety and wellbeing issues, but again, to that same example, if I went to meet with Dr. Ford, and in my conversation with you, I disclosed that there were some other things I'm dealing with, how much should our advisors feel like they have enough capacity to listen out for certain things, and then know how to properly refer that individual to someone else?

(10:39):

So yeah, I think the short answer is it was always there, I just think that maybe the conversation space for it wasn't always at the headline level, but it is right now. I think most times, when I talk to vice presidents of student affairs, or even presidents, many of them, if I ask them, "What do you think are the top five issues on your campus?" Somewhere in there will be health, safety or wellbeing, or all three.

Dr. Cristi Ford (11:01):

You paint a really good picture in terms of the need for advisors to have the opportunity around upskilling, the challenge of the ongoing complexity of demands of the student experience on campuses today. When we look at some of this research, we heard from the Tyton Partners report that students really wanted to be able to talk to academic advisors around some of these topics, but as the response from advisors was, we really have these other areas that we need to address in terms of scheduling and re-enrollment and some of the pieces that go along with that.

(11:38):

I wonder if some of this, as you look at innovation and technology, do you think this could partially be solved by the use of chatbots or texting services, where students can maybe have an opportunity to share what's on their mind at 3:00 in the morning, and then that's curated, so then advisors can reach out and have more information? Or maybe is it not even scalable? I don't know. What are you hearing and what are you thinking about in terms of what advisors should be doing and utilizing technology to enable and power some of these things?

Dr. Amelia Parnell (12:09):

Oh, absolutely. You answered the question already for me. That was a softball question, I don't mind you giving it to me. I maybe want to set the backdrop with some assumptions, and understanding that certain conditions, if they're in place, then absolutely, that is the ideal scenario, I think, where I guess some would refer to the interactivity mix of technology versus human interaction. But understanding that if there's a campus that has capacity to invest in technology, whether that be artificial intelligence or some other platform of a different type, also the capacity for individual advisors to actually learn how to use it effectively.

(12:43):

So I also want to just say anytime we have a technology conversation, at least with my colleagues, it's not going to be long before someone says, "With what money, Amelia? How much is this going to cost us? We don't have unlimited budget." And if that's not enough, they've invested it, "With what time do I have time to reconstruct my whole operations?"So I want to say understanding that it's not a plug and play solution. But for campuses that have the capacity, either personnel, time, money, things like that, to actually do this, I can see a scenario in which the student has the actual opportunity to sit down and talk with their advisor about the 2.0, 3.0 level questions, not, what classes should I be taking?

(13:19):

Degree mapping has been going on for quite a while. I could totally see some pre-work being done, but the student would enter some information, the advisor might do the same, and then this technology platform might actually take care of a lot of that administrative piece of the advising session. So if I only had 30 minutes with my advisor, 15 minutes of what would've probably been very, very tactical stuff gets done in advance, and that leaves more room for me to tell you why I want to be an architect or why I want to major in business and that type of thing. So I hope that the leveraging of technology happens at a pace where it doesn't feel like it's a flip the switch type thing, and some who may not be used to having that level of involvement with a chatbot feel like they're a little bit behind, but I think it's going to be the space for the future.

(14:01):

Now, I'll also admit that I'm definitely that person, I made this joke on a panel one time, but I think people can relate to it, even for as much as I just gave you that answer, I sold the idea that the future will involve us leveraging technology. If I need to change my flight plans and I have to call the airline and it says, "I'm Erin, I can understand full sentences, how can I help you today?" I'm going to say, "Representative," just because I want to talk to somebody, and I know for a fact if I just put in that chat, "All I want to do is change my city to a different city, or change my time, or change my seat," it's not that I don't trust that the chatbot or that the virtual assistant can do it, but I just need to talk to Cristi, I need to tell you exactly why I want that window seat, and I want to tell you why I want that window seat to be closer to the front, the type of thing.

(14:51):

And so, I realize there's a certain amount of individual work we'll have to do to get ourselves ready to leverage technology. And that's not about training, that's not about money, that literally is about disposition and an appetite to move into a different space. So I too have work to do, I hope you all listeners won't judge me for that, but that's what I think.

Dr. Cristi Ford (15:10):

I appreciate you saying that, because really, it's a paradigm shift in terms of... I do the same thing. I'm pushing 000 representative, because you learn all the tricks over the years. But at the same time, thinking about the caseloads of advisors-

Dr. Amelia Parnell (15:24):

Absolutely.

Dr. Cristi Ford (15:24):

... and the complexities of issues that advisors are dealing with, there has to be an opportunity to compromise. And I appreciate how you said the pre-work.

Dr. Amelia Parnell (15:33):

Yes.

Dr. Cristi Ford (15:33):

There is always, for us at D2L, an emphasis and focus in AI or any kind of technological enhancement, keeping the educator, keeping the human in the loop of things, and so making sure that there is that human intervention, that human touch, but it needs to be high impact. And so, I appreciate your thoughts around the administrative pieces, because advisors typically get in the business of being advisors because they want to be able to connect and engage and enhance lives of students, and so if we can use technology to help them do that better than that, that's just penultimate in terms of this work.

Dr. Amelia Parnell (16:07):

Absolutely.

Dr. Cristi Ford (16:09):

So I want to move on a little bit and pull out another point around student support and awareness from this Tyton report. There was one piece that was listed there around awareness of support. So we talked earlier about the connections to safety and physical safety and the things that students need, but we then started to see in the report a big disconnect between institutions and students when it came to support services. And so, the report really talked about institutions and the amount of money, you talked earlier about budget, the amount of money the institutions invest in student support services, with the understanding and assumption that students are going to use them. Yet, the report showed that only 50% of the students that were surveyed were actually aware of key services, like academic and career advising, financial aid, even mental health counseling.

(17:00):

And so, I'd love to understand, as we talk about the importance of awareness and communication, what are you hearing from student affairs professionals around this phenomenon? And are there opportunities that we need to be able to align differently to be able to close this chasm between awareness and get students the support that they actually need on campus?

Dr. Amelia Parnell (17:20):

I would say there's a continuum going on here. If we frame the question one way, it looks like students are not reading their email, which is the very, very quick response that most professionals say, "Well, we all know when students don't read their email." And oftentimes, when I hear that, I would say, "I think they actually do read their email, but because they get so many different types of messages, ones that might just be a reminder, 'Hey, don't forget to do this thing,' others that might be take action, 'You have to do this thing by this particular date,' others that might be, 'I want to meet with you, can you meet with me tomorrow at this particular time?'"

(17:50):

And so, if it comes to me that students get this many messages at a time when they're walking across campus, or they might be in class, or they might be going to some other higher priority thing, by the time they get back to their inbox, there are 15 messages all requiring different levels of attention. And at that particular time, they're like, "I'm just not going to respond to any of these. I've got to figure out what my next thing is going to be." So I want to just acknowledge that sometimes it's literally about the volume, and I oftentimes tell friends I deal with the same thing in my personal Gmail account. And so, sometimes I'll just scan it and just see what needs my immediate attention, and if I don't respond to every one of the other ones, they could easily think, well, Amelia never reads her emails. No, I read them, I just haven't taken the action that I need to.

(18:29):

But I think in the bigger scheme of things, to get students to take action, the kinds of actions that we want to prescribe for them to take for their success, I've oftentimes heard that it takes several iterations of trying to deliver the same message. And so, I want to acknowledge that it's not just a challenge for the students, it's a challenge for administrators and faculty and staff as well to figure out some level of coordination. So I don't want to frame it as though there's some type of misstep that's been happening, but there's a whole lot we have to do to make any organization work, whether that be a campus or D2L or NASPA.

(18:59):

And so, one day, faculty are prioritizing messages that they want to go to the students, at the same time that the registrar is prioritizing messages that they want to go to the students, as well as financial aid, as well as student affairs. And so, my biggest suggestion would be to take a fresh look at how we can coordinate those messages. Now, I realize that type of coordination means, Amelia, are you saying we now have to have a weekly group meeting for all the entities that want to email students? No, I'm not saying that. But to some degree, if we were to do a little bit of the communications on it across the board, on average, how many messages hit AParnell@BigStateUniversity.edu, it might be a little surprising, and to some degree, maybe we could figure out a different way of sequencing these messages there. So I would say the first suggestion would be some level of just truly like an audit of communication.

(19:44):

At NASPA, I went with that hunch, that idea that students don't read their email, and we did a little bit of a smaller project to try to really figure out to what extent within student affairs this communications piece was actually moving in the right direction. And what we found was that there were a number of campuses who said, "I actually wish we had somebody who was our communications person within student affairs."And so, I don't know if that's a new role that's going to emerge, per se, but many of them said that they're, at a minimum, they're doing the thing that most organizations do, which is that we have a communications calendar. On Mondays, we always write them about this, on Tuesdays, we write about that, and we have somebody who's managing the calendar and the sending of the messages.

(20:20):

That's a little bit different than the strategy, you say, across all these messages, are there places where certain messages can be combined, or certain places where a different level of priority? So you asked what NASPA is doing, I'm still having the conversation about do students read their email. That small study, I think it unearthed a few things. It left us with more questions of answers, which a good research study should probably do. But short answer to a very simple question was I think we should probably take a fresh look at the number of messages, that would be a really good place to start, and then to see, across all those messages, is there a way to create some efficiency? Because on the other end is an individual student who's looking at this long list of things in their inbox like, "Okay, I'll get to all this later." And so, I want to shift that narrative a little bit.

(21:01):

But I absolutely do agree, that communication is probably the key piece to getting students from just hearing about something they should do to actually taking the action. So if you find somebody who's doing exceptional work, send them to me, I would love to learn more.

Dr. Cristi Ford (21:16):

I think that you're onto something in terms of that importance around coordination and collaboration. And so, it's more than just keeping the trains running, more than getting information across the multiple channels. But to your point, being able to... In the tech world, we talk about UX and we talk about the student journey-

Dr. Amelia Parnell (21:34):

Yes.

Dr. Cristi Ford (21:35):

... and being able to chronicle that student journey to understand, maybe it's week three, maybe it's week five, what is the journey of a student throughout the semester, and how can you create strategies that will then inform the opportunities to be able to action some of this work? And so, as I'm listening to you, I can just literally see this diagram that really leans into the strategy around that, and then is it formed by the research and what we know about students and their well-being.

(22:05):

You've piqued my interest a little bit though, so I'm going to come off script a little bit and ask you a little bit more about your work around NASPA and the research you've done, you talked about the top five and wellness and safety and well-being. Can you talk with the listeners a little bit more about what you found in that research survey?

Dr. Amelia Parnell (22:23):

Which one, about the top five issues?

Dr. Cristi Ford (22:23):

Yes.

Dr. Amelia Parnell (22:26):

Oh, yeah, yeah. So shameless plug, you can go to Google and put in NASPA 2024 top five issues. And it was really just the effort that I wanted to do to get into the mix of using research to actually answer these questions like, well, what are the big issues? If you had talked to me a year or two ago, I probably would've said, "I'm not quite sure about the top 10, but I think somewhere at the top will probably be mental health and probably the cost of college, things like that." But I got tired of doing it anecdotally, I got tired of doing it just as a one person perspective, so I decided to ask my colleagues to work with me and launched the inaugural annual survey of top issues in student affairs.

(22:59):

Now, I'm not thinking that every year, the top 10 is going to be completely different, but the idea is that we'll see types of movement. So your question earlier, where you were like, "Hey, what's about this emergence of conversation around health, safety and wellness," and I was like, "Well, actually, I think it's been there the whole time."

Dr. Cristi Ford (23:11):

Yeah.

Dr. Amelia Parnell (23:12):

I would know that if I say, "Hey, this year's top five or these, next year's top five, something else moved up from the top 10, number six, position number five." So that's me being a little bit nerdy.

(23:22):

But my goal for the survey really is to give this idea that every year, VPs of student affairs, or even those just getting into the field, or those who are looking to work with the student affairs division to help them address their needs, third-party partnerships, things like that, they would be able to point to some trend data around what the top issues are. So again, the nuance within that health, safety and wellness piece is it really revolves around capacity challenges, so literally having enough people to fill these roles. Some of them are sustained once you get them there. It's high demand, so imagine if a lot of campuses really need counselors, it's a very competitive space, and if you can really sustain your workforce, that's a huge thing. And then, training is in there too. The issues continue to evolve, and you want to make sure that your approaches aligned with what these students really need us to be able to provide to them.

(24:06):

So if anybody's curious what didn't make the top 10, there's a whole webpage for it. You can find it on the NASPA website, it's free and available.

Dr. Cristi Ford (24:13):

Of course, there is.

Dr. Amelia Parnell (24:14):

Check it out, yeah, yeah, there's a whole lot more to it. So that was the dream I had, that I wanted to be in the mix of using data to actually speak to these top issues.

Dr. Cristi Ford (24:23):

And I love that you're going to take a longitudinal approach to this-

Dr. Amelia Parnell (24:25):

Right.

Dr. Cristi Ford (24:26):

... and so that you can really be able to chronicle, over the years, what student affairs professionals are seeing, how these trends are shifting. And I can just literally almost feel like I see a leaderboard.

Dr. Amelia Parnell (24:37):

Yeah.

Dr. Cristi Ford (24:37):

Something may be in spot one this year-

Dr. Amelia Parnell (24:40):

Absolutely.

Dr. Cristi Ford (24:40):

... and next year, it moves to spot three, and then really be able to look at that journey.

Dr. Amelia Parnell (24:45):

Yeah.

Dr. Cristi Ford (24:45):

So thank you for sharing.

Dr. Amelia Parnell (24:46):

It's also a little bit of a way to prepare for what's coming.

Dr. Cristi Ford (24:48):

That's right.

Dr. Amelia Parnell (24:48):

The idea that maybe something is new to the top 10. Well, let's keep an eye on this, maybe three or four years later, it'll be in the top five.

Dr. Cristi Ford (24:56):

As I'm listening to you and talking to you, I'm thinking about listeners who may be feeling like, well, I'm a faculty member, or I'm in charge of online at my institution, I think we know, collectively, students are all our responsibility and we all have a call to action. But as you think about your work you're doing at NASPA, for those who are listening to this podcast episode, if you were to have a call to action around mental health and wellness, around physical safety, around this conversation we've had around advisement, what might that be and how might you call them to action in terms of what they can be doing for students on their campuses, either physically or virtually?

Dr. Amelia Parnell (25:34):

Yeah. I don't know if it's the right thing to do to be on one person's podcast and then mention another person's podcast, but I feel like I should do it. There's the EdUp Provost podcast, I don't know if people have heard of it, I was on that podcast, the episode just launched, maybe two, three weeks ago, but the question was, let's talk about the relationship between student affairs and academic affairs. So when you mentioned that, I was like, okay, shameless plug, listen to this podcast first, and then if you have time, listen to that podcast.

(26:02):

But in that conversation, I thought it was a wonderful opportunity to talk about a relationship that continues to evolve in people's discussions, and depending on who you're talking to, they almost make this depiction that student affairs and academic affairs are either in competition or conflict with each other, when honestly, I think a lot more collaboration happens than most people would probably give credit for. If they're looking for that drama, then I just don't think it has to be there like that, because to your point, we're at a place now where students are moving about all of our functional units, departments, and divisions. Gone are the days of, this is my responsibility and this is yours, I think we're in a place now where it's a much more even set of conversations. So I offer that just as a setup to this.

(26:39):

So I think if it's a faculty member or someone working in instructional design or online education, and the call to action from the president of NASPA who represents this 14,000 member association, what I would probably say it is two things. If we're not careful, we could limit student affairs to a narrative of only crisis management. So if anything happens that's unfortunate in nature, emergency, oh, I'm so glad we've got student affairs because they stepped in in crisis. And I think it's good to have that association with professionals who can step in in a time of need. If that's not the first narrative, the other narrative is, I'm so glad we got orientation and clubs and activities and all of these fun and engaging things that student affairs does, and they can almost paint this picture that all we do is provide engagement opportunities, and we do some of that, but we also do crisis management.

(27:25):

The third piece is where the call to action is, which is student success. In many cases, students are learning things in student affairs, divisions and departments, service learning, cultural competence, problem solving, all these places where students are picking up skills and abilities and the capacity to show and demonstrate what they know and can do. Student affairs educators, that's the phrase that people oftentimes don't lead with the way that I hope that they would.

(27:48):

So the first call to action is if you have time, give a kind word or a note to your resident student affairs professionals, because there are many hats that they wear, and in some cases, they are crisis managers, in some cases, they are engagement specialists, and in some cases, they are student success specialists. And so, that doesn't mean that academic affairs doesn't do that, it doesn't mean that IT professionals don't either. But I would say in this particular climate of the whole continuum of things that professionals are doing, student affairs professionals, they do a lot. So you probably knew that was coming, I can't be leading NASPA and not say, give some kudos to your colleagues.

(28:22):

The second thing I would say is a continuous of what we already do. So back to that same first point about the EdUp Provost podcast, I probably didn't have to say the name again, now I'm doing a commercial for them. But the second point is what's already been happening, there's already a lot of collaboration. So I would say, if anything, talk about it more. If you have a chance to be at a conference or a webinar for faculty, invite your student affairs colleagues to come with you. If you're in IT or you're in business and finance and you have a topic, like maybe it's addressing students' basic needs, and you as a VP of finance investing in that, invite your colleagues from student affairs to co-present with you or co-write with you. I think the more we can create the narrative to show people where this partnership is happening, it helps to dispel these myths that keep this level of drama going, but I hope to, at some point, wash away a little bit.

(29:06):

So yeah, first call to action, give a little extra love to your student affairs colleagues, the second, invite us to be a part of your conversations outside of student affairs so we can end up promoting more of this collaboration.

Dr. Cristi Ford (29:17):

Fantastic. The first time I had you on this podcast, it was to promote a fantastic book that you wrote around data, and now you're back and you are the president of NASPA. So every time I talk to you-

Dr. Amelia Parnell (29:30):

Something big.

Dr. Cristi Ford (29:32):

... there's something new that you are championing and you're doing. And so, I'd love to end this episode with understanding what's next for you, what's next for your presidency-

Dr. Amelia Parnell (29:40):

Yeah.

Dr. Cristi Ford (29:41):

... or anything else you'd like to share with our listeners today?

Dr. Amelia Parnell (29:44):

Honestly, I want to share gratitude. I'm about six months into the presidency, and it's been wonderful, it really has been wonderful. So my priority probably for the next year or so is to continue to get more immersed in the student affairs community at the campus level, and of course, within the membership. So in my previous role as VP of research and policy, I got to take a very broad look at national issues in higher education, and I'll continue to do that, but as a president, you start to want to know the more intricate details of the business. And so, I want members who join NASPA to know that I'm looking at all kinds of data about their experiences with NASPA, not in a creepy way. But what used to be my focus on students' outcomes and writing about how campuses can use data, I'm looking at business intelligence now.

(30:26):

So I want to know, Cristi, if you came to our annual conference and you also signed up for a webinar and you also bought one of our books, I want to know where your interests are. I want to know, did you open those emails that I sent you? Back to those same types of data that you would ask if you were leading a campus. So first priority is to just get even more under the hood of NASPA operations. Again, not to be micromanaging or anything like that, but I want to make sure, when I'm on stages and talking about the benefits of NASPA, that I understand what our members really need and want from us.

(30:52):

The second is I'm still going to be nerdy, I'm still reading things. So if you want to know what's on my shortlist, AI, of course, you probably knew that was coming. I want to know how AI not only can be leveraged to help students on campus, I want to know what nonprofits are doing with AI. I want to know what D2L is doing, what's NASPA doing, what our associations doing to leverage AI? Because to some extent, what happens in industries like healthcare and manufacturing is going to happen in higher ed, and what happens in the nonprofit space and those industries happens in the nonprofit space in education.

(31:18):

Beyond that, also, just having time to have podcast conversations with my friends. In many ways, I get to be a champion for this very valuable and vibrant and versible, how about that for alliteration, organization, so when I get invitations like this, I just enjoy it. So I don't know what the next solo independent adventure might be for me of a book or something like that, but I'll know when it happens. So I'm going to be talking to the people within NASPA, within student affairs, I'm going to be on podcasts and things like that, and also just learning more about the true business intelligence of the association, so that's where I'm at for now.

Dr. Cristi Ford (31:53):

Today.

Dr. Amelia Parnell (31:54):

Today. That might change at some point.

Dr. Cristi Ford (31:57):

Really, really fantastic. I adore you, the work that you do. I respect so much where you are taking the field. I am so honored to know you and really excited about your presidency. It sounds like we have another conversation to have-

Dr. Amelia Parnell (32:11):

Oh, yes.

Dr. Cristi Ford (32:12):

... around AI and nonprofits and student affairs, so we will book that at another time. But I really want to thank you for coming on and being a guest here with me today.

Dr. Amelia Parnell (32:22):

My pleasure. I'm happy to come anytime. I know we have no shortage of things to talk about. And I know you could invite anybody to be on this show, so thank you for not only inviting me the first time, but having me back again. So I hope your listeners enjoyed the conversation, and if something else comes up you want to talk about, you know how to find me.

Dr. Cristi Ford (32:38):

So thank you to our dedicated listeners and curious educators everywhere. Remember to follow us on social media. You can find us on X, Instagram, LinkedIn, and Facebook, at D2L, and subscribe to the D2L YouTube channel. You'll also be able to sign up for the Teaching and Learning Studio email list for the latest updates on new episodes, articles, and master classes. And if you like what you've heard today, remember to rate us, give us some feedback, share this episode with a colleague or two, and remember to subscribe so you never miss an episode. Bye for now, and thanks for the time.

(33:10):

You've been listening to Teach and Learn, a podcast for curious educators, brought to you by D2L.

Speaker 2 (33:15):

To learn more about our K-20 and corporate solutions, visit d2l.com. Visit the Teaching and Learning Studio for more material for educators by educators, including master classes, articles, and interviews.

Dr. Cristi Ford (33:29):

And remember to hit that subscribe button, and please take a moment to rate, review and share the podcast. Thanks for joining us. Until next time, school's out.